Sex scenes and Thai food

[selenay]

mirabellawotr wrote a very coherent, interesting post on sex in fics here. Read down through the comments as well. I was fascinated to discover that I'm not the only person who finds that a great fic can be ruined by sex scenes that are glaringly out of pace with the rest of the story!

When I started writing fanfic, back in the days of writing Buffy/Giles, I had this assumption that all relationship fic had to include sex. I have no idea why. That's why my early stuff had a lot more (badly written) sex in it than my more recent stuff. Nowadays, I'm more confident about my writing and will freely admit that most of my stories work better without the sex. In fact, I'm perfectly happy to write fade-to-black, despite the 'aargh, how could you end it there?' comments I sometimes get (no, riverfox, this is not aimed at you). I only put sex in if it fits with the rest of the story and the story will be weaker without. Yes, that means that I'm seriously toying with not fading to black in an upcoming edition of Inner Voices.

Some of the hottest, sexiest fic that I've read has faded to black instead of writing a blow-by-blow account of the sex and (after cooling down) I know that the story was so good because of that tension throughout it. I've also read incredibly hot fic that just brushed along the edges of the sex without describing every movement and sound - it was the emotions, feelings and hints that made it so damn hot. The thing is that I still see people apologising for leaving out the sex or complaining about the fade to black in a fabulous story, not getting the fact that the story could have been ruined by poorly written sex. How many times have you skipped over the sex scenes because they're samey, dull or out of place?

runpunkrun has a post in a similar vein here that is an interesting rant about boring sex scenes and how to avoid them. One of the techniques to avoid boring sex scenes? See whether fade to black will work better. I just wish that more people in the fanfic world would understand and think about that before either inserting a boring and inappropriate sex scene or complaining about the perfectly wonderful fic that faded to black instead of describing every lick, suck and slap.

Why do so many of my posts lately seem to end up as thinly (or not at all) disguised rants?

In other news, I actually did a lot of work on relational databases college work, which means that I feel slightly less guilty about goofing off yesterday. Yay me. I also discovered that I'm going out for a friend's birthday to my favourite restaurant tomorrow. I was also there on Friday, but I couldn't care less because it is yummy Thai food and I rarely get to have yummy Thai food. In fact, Friday was the first time this year that I've had yummy Thai food. I'm getting hungry just thinking about it ::drool::

Comments

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

How many times have you skipped over the sex scenes because they're samey, dull or out of place?

I very rarely skip over sex scenes, even if they're poorly written--I guess part of it is the 'remind me to never to that' kind of thing.*g* It's always interesting to see what works and what doesn't. My biggest thing in sex scenes is keeping the guys in character. I want to read about how Jack and Daniel make love, not two random guys, even if it is very hot and well written. It's got to be about them, and unmistakably so. It's their interesting little character quirks that make it fun and real.

You're so right that a blow-by-blow description really isn't needed--it's what's going on in their hearts that captures my attention. I want to know what they feel, how they are feeling, I want to experience it all right along with them. I just love the love.

[paranoidangel]

Sex scenes have a tendency to make me laugh (which possibly says more about me than the writing :) ) so fade to black works so much better for me. I think I've read maybe two fics where the sex was part of the plot and you'd miss something if you skipped it. Which is what I do most of the time.

I find it odd that people feel they have to write sex in fics though because I've never come across that. Or perhaps it's just from my first couple of NC-17 fics had really crap sex scenes and put me off reading any for ages.

[selenay]

I very rarely skip over sex scenes, even if they're poorly written--I guess part of it is the 'remind me to never to that' kind of thing.*g*

You're a better person than I *g* I sometimes find myself skim-reading or just giving in and skipping a sex scene. I hate feeling that an author has counted the pages, realised that it's reached a point where there should be a sex scene (i.e. penultimate scene in the fic) and tacked one in that has 'obligatory sex scene' written all over it. It's frustrating because sometimes the rest of the fic was great and the sex scene was just...bad ::shudder::

I want to read about how Jack and Daniel make love, not two random guys, even if it is very hot and well written.

Ditto. Whatever fandom I'm reading in, I want to feel like I'm reading about those guys rather than any two guys. That might be part of what frustrates me - a lot of those bad or boring obligatory sex scenes don't read like the characters.

You're so right that a blow-by-blow description really isn't needed--it's what's going on in their hearts that captures my attention.

Exactly. I've read some fabulous fics (don't ask me to name them - I have a poor memory) and pro books that were incredibly hot without blow-by-blow descriptions or lots of technical terms that are more appropriate to a medical text. What was hot were the feelings and the hints at what was going on - it allowed me to use my imagination to fill in the rest without worrying about who's hand was where. It's easy to end up going down the purple prose route, too, but if it's done right that stuff can be as amazing as the most detailed sex scene by the best PWP goddess.

[selenay]

I find it odd that people feel they have to write sex in fics though because I've never come across that.

I think part of the problem is that in a lot of fandoms it's the NC-17 or R rated fics that get the biggest responses. I've seen people state that they won't read anything under NC-17. That puts a lot of pressure on writers to include sex scenes and jack it up to NC-17 rather than fading to black and keeping it at PG-13 where they'd feel more comfortable. If an author isn't comfortable writing that graphic sex scene, it comes out in the writing and inspires rants like the one I wrote above :-) I think new authors to slash or ship feel a lot of pressure to write high rated smut because of the perceived attitude to it. I certainly did. I'm now more inclined to write whatever I feel comfortable with and what fits best with the stories, but that's a big barrier to cross, especially after reading a few posts from the NC-17 only people. You worry about missing out on an audience because the rating isnt' high enough. Frankly, there are more NC-17 only people out there than there are PG-13 only. I'm an equal opportunities person (although G in a slash fic may not grab my attention), but a lot of people aren't.

I think I've read maybe two fics where the sex was part of the plot and you'd miss something if you skipped it. Which is what I do most of the time.

That alone should probably tell those writers something. If you can easily skip a sex scene without losing anything from the story, the writer should probably look at whether the sex scene is needed and, if they're really determined to keep it, how the sex scene can be re-written so that people don't want to skip over it.

[paranoidangel]

I think new authors to slash or ship feel a lot of pressure to write high rated smut because of the perceived attitude to it.

I don't quite know how but I must have missed this completely. Until recently I assumed NC-17 fics had less readers and they were actually in the minority.

although G in a slash fic may not grab my attention

It definitely would mine. The lower rated the slash, the better it's likely to be. My first ever slash fic (which is really, really bad, I might re-write it sometime) was a G because it never occurred to me to write anything rated higher. I think my highest rated fic is a PG - which I thought made me in the majority, so it's quite odd to hear the opposite is true.

I've seen people state that they won't read anything under NC-17

Now that I don't understand at all. Perhaps because I'm coming at it from the opposite end (an NC-17 fic has to sound really good for me to consider reading it) but does anyone know why people think that?

[selenay]

Until recently I assumed NC-17 fics had less readers and they were actually in the minority.

I think a lot of perception probably depends on which archives you're frequenting, which mailing lists you're on and what kind of fanfic you search out - there's probably a huge difference in perception between gen, slash and het fans. Maybe. NC-17 is probably in the minority in some groups, but the dark corners of fandom that I lurked in gave me the impression that most people were looking for NC-17.

The lower rated the slash, the better it's likely to be.

I think a lot comes from my perceptions of the way I rank things :-) If a story has a touch or a kiss or a slightly sexual thought, it automatically gets ramped up to PG. I think I've only got one G rated fic and I remember being uncertain about whether I should have given it a PG. I'm either prudish or very wary of young 'uns accidentally stumbling into territory they're not prepared for. Anything beyond minor hints of touch-kiss-thought territory (er, so most of my stuff) goes to PG-13. That's across the board, though - I don't differenciate between slash or het when I'm rating my work. I even ramped up the rating on Lean On Me because of the (fade to black) scenes of torture that were no worse than we saw on Abyss.

I'm just too careful with my own rating. It means, though, that when I'm looking at fics I tend to find it hard to believe that G-rated fic can actually be slash and I have to really be talked into attempting it. PG and above I have no problem with, but G is unlikely to catch my attention unless I know the author.

Perhaps because I'm coming at it from the opposite end (an NC-17 fic has to sound really good for me to consider reading it) but does anyone know why people think that?

You've got me stumped, there. I can't understand the attitude either. I'm an equal opportunities person and wouldn't dismiss an enourmous chunk of fanfic just because the rating is too low. I may have to think about a G fic before I'll read it, but rating is not the first thing I check before reading a fic. It's usually the last thing and that's only so that I'll know whether the plot or the sex is going to get top priority :-)