Help needed - info on aspects of America high school system

[selenay]

Help needed!

Specifically, anyone with any kind of familiarity with the American schooling system would be massively appreciated right now. I'm plotting out a high school AU and for various logistical reasons (namely, 90% of the canon characters are American and my brain would hurt too much trying to shoehorn them all into an English sixth form college) it's going to need to be set in an American high school.

I mean, I can vague my way through a fair bit based on watching and reading a fair bit of stuff set in high school, but there are some specifics that I feel like I may need solid info on. At least, enough that I don't sound entirely crazy to actual American readers. High school AUs are a fantasy version of high school anyway, but accidentally having my kids writing UCAS applications that don't exist may be pushing the bounds. A bit.

So.



1. AP classes are a thing. I have heard of them. They are, from my understanding, classes that are more advanced than standard high school classes and can be used as college prep (possibly even counted for college credits? Maybe?). When would a high school kid start taking them? Junior year? Senior? Would it be reasonable for a kid to start on AP track classes in the first few weeks of their senior year? Or would I need to have them make the decision late in their junior year for starting in the senior year? Or, er, something else?

2. Who would advise a kid to switch to AP classes? Is this likely to be the guidance counsellor, one of their subject teachers, their home room teacher (do they have a home room teacher in high school) or some other school figure?

3. And would that person be advising them on college applications as well?

4. Lastly, at what point in the school year do they apply for college? And is it done in junior or senior year?

I'm largely trying to figure out timelines for the fic and work out which roles certain characters will have at this stage. The plot is largely formed (ish), but these specifics feel like important things to nail down before I start writing and have to scrap half my words due to bad information :-)

And this is the kind of stuff I can't seem to form good Google terms for. Gah.

If it helps, I'm locating this in a vague and fictional New York City. Oh god.



Seriously, any help with any of this (even just links or snippets that I can pull together to build my verse) would be hugely helpful.

Comments

[gonergone]

1. AP classes do count as college credit, depending on the college and your score on the AP test. The AP test is what actually matters, not the class itself - that just prepares you for the AP (Advanced Placement, if you didn't know that) test that usually is given in late May/June, so at the end of the school year. People who haven't taken the AP classes can take the tests, which are standardized across the country, so again, the class isn't the important thing. AP tests are graded 1-5, if I remember correctly, with 3-5 counting as passing and usually a score of at least 3 needed to count for college credit. I took AP classes my junior and senior years of high school, but they'd mostly be a senior year thing, and usually registration for the next year would take place the spring of the year before it. "AP Track" would actually happen years before, depending on what kind of class it is. For AP calculus, say, you would have had to take Geometry, Algebra 2/Trig, and Pre-calculus in your freshman, sophomore and junior years respectively, so it's not something you could just opt into on a whim (or without a lot of summer school.) AP English, however, could be taken instead of regular English 12, since the English courses are more or less the same for everyone (unless they're on a GT track anyway.)

2. This can vary, I think. You do your registration through your guidance counselor in the public school system I grew up in, and didn't need a teacher recommendation for AP classes. We didn't have homeroom in high school, either - we started with first period. Guidance counselors could also do college applications, but I don't think many of them take a very active role in that. I mean, again, it would vary, but counselors are the kind of things schools cut back on first, rather than teachers, so there weren't enough to go around when I went to school (late 90s) so I can't imagine it's gotten much better now. I think I had a couple meetings with mine junior/senior year to ask about where I was applying and what my plans were, but the onus was really on me to do all the applications and research and everything.

Applications for college happen (generally) at the beginning of the senior year. It, too , can vary, with things like Early Admission and summer start dates. If I were you I would pick a real school that the characters are applying to and maybe change the name, but use their real applications deadlines and materials as a sort of guide for what needs to be done.

3.

[selenay]

Thank you! I'm rejigging my outline a bit to accommodate this information and I think it's actually working out better now that I have some clue about what in heck AP really is, rather than relying on vague TV references :-D

These answers are a little long...

[surferofdreams]

I went to high school in North Carolina from 2004-2008, and I have a younger sister currently going to the same school I went to, so everything I write is based mostly on that experience.

1. I took 3 AP classes: AP US History, AP Calculus AB, and AP Calculus BC. AP US History was mostly the same time frame as Honors US History (Which I had to take to graduate), but there was a lot more focus on writing essays in the AP class. I got a 5 on the exam (which I think was a combo of multiple choice and a few essay questions, poss. some short answer), which counted as having taken two history classes at North Carolina State University.

I got a 4 on the AP Calc AB test, and a 3 on the AP Calc BC test (with an AB subscore of 4). NCSU was willing to give me credit for having taken Calc I and Calc II if I passed Calc III my freshman year, but I decided to take Calc II instead to attempt to get a better understanding of the math. The calculus classes were based off a pretty concrete list of formulas and concepts that had to be understood in order to pass the tests.

Different colleges/universities will grant different amounts of credit for different AP scores, and some schools will only give credit for specific tests. For example, in 2008 NCSU only accepted AP English credits if a student also submitted a writing sample/portfolio made up of graded essays from the AP class by a certain deadline.

Also, to provide a different perspective on timing: at my school system it was possible to take some classes ahead of time by either doubling up on academic classes (we had semester long classes in blocks of four: four in the fall and four in the spring) or taking advanced classes in middle school. I took Algebra II my freshman year of high school because I had taken the prerequisite classes in middle school. I also doubled up my science my freshman year so I could take chemistry my sophomore year.

Lastly, at my school we had to sign up for classes at the end of the preceding year and wouldn't know what semester our classes would be until the fall, but we also had the option to change our schedules at the beginning of each semester if something didn't work out right or we changed our minds.

Re: These answers are a little long...

[surferofdreams]

2. Anyone can talk to a kid or their parents and tell them that they should take AP classes, but it's up to the kid/parents to decide what classes they want to sign up for. Again, speaking from my own experience, but my school had homeroom teachers that worked kind of like advisers in that you had to meet with your homeroom teacher at the end of the year (usually also with a parent/guardian type) to sign up for classes. Depending on how well the homeroom teacher knows the kid, they might be able to help decide whether or not a kid should be able to handle the work. What they do usually know is the kid's transcript and if requirements are met.

How homeroom worked at my school wasn't exactly like TV/movies, though. We only met when the school needed to pass out paperwork to everyone, like for report cards or picture day. They were organized by grade level and last name, so you were always in homeroom with mostly the same people, and usually had the same teacher. Also, instead of having a specific class period for homeroom, we just borrowed about half an hour from the first class of the day (which was 1.5 hours long, so it wasn't really that much off).

Re: These answers are a little long...

[surferofdreams]

3. Guidance counselors and homeroom teachers both advised about college at my school. Like I said in my answer to #2, the homeroom teacher met with the student/parents each year, and planning for college was part of planning for classes. My homeroom teacher was a guidance counselor, so I was a little lucky there. I think everyone had to have a meeting with a guidance counselor before they graduated, kind of like the career meetings in Harry Potter. If you wanted help with college applications you had to request a separate meeting, though.

I also had the different track options at my school. I think it was college track or vocational track. If you were college track you had to take more math and science. If you were vocational track you had to pick a career path, like food science, technology, nursing/health, etc. We also had JROTC, but I can't remember if that counted as a career path or just one of those really annoying electives that takes up a quarter of your time if you are super committed (I was in the band).

Re: These answers are a little long...

[surferofdreams]

4. Some kids start applying in the spring of their junior year, and I think most deadlines for freshman applications are between December and March of the year before you want to start (senior year). Early decision is usually before that. However, I was inundated with mail from colleges from partway through my sophomore year until I had finished applying to places.

Re: These answers are a little long...

[selenay]

THANK YOU. This is all so useful. It's changed a few things about my outline/timeline, but in a good way (I think) and this is amazingly useful stuff. I got sucked into a black hole of Wiki links last night and ended up more confused than I started, so this info is fantastic :-)

Re: These answers are a little long...

[surferofdreams]

:) I'm glad to help!

[psalmoflife]

I second the answers you have, but to throw in a few additional things from my experience:

1) I knew people who took their first AP class their senior year; I also knew people who were taking AP classes their sophomore year. It's entirely dependent on the student and what sorts of prep classes they took. I did know people who switched into AP classes shortly after the semester started, so I think as long as it happens in the first few weeks it's okay. If the kid hasn't taken any sort of honors/AP-prep classes, it might be good to have a line that they are super adept at the subject, the "normal" classes aren't challenging enough, etc. Re: the exams, 1-2 is a failing grade, 3-5 is a pass, but every college I looked at required at least a 4 to give you college credit. The one exception to that is the Calculus courses, for which some will accept a 3.

2. I was advised about AP classes by my guidance counselor, but I also had teachers telling me to take them. At my school you needed your current teacher to sign off on you moving to an AP class the next year. So, for example, my 10th grade English teacher approved me moving into AP Language the following year. That probably varies by school, though.

3. Guidance counselors were available for college things. My AP Literature class had a unit in September where we wrote college application essays. I also went to some other teachers for help and they all said yes. Keep in mind that some schools want recommendation letters from teachers, so applicants might be going back to teachers from earlier grades.

4. Colleges don't usually put up their applications for the year until August-ish (from what I remember from me/my brother in '07 and '09). I would say most people tried to get their SAT or ACT done late in their junior year, since that can narrow down realistic school options, and then do the applications in the fall. Most places don't close applications until December or later, but you usually hear earlier if you apply earlier.

A potentially helpful website is the College Board site for AP Classes: https://apstudent.collegeboard.org/home. College Board is the organization that writes and scores AP tests, as well as the SAT.

[settiai]

1. I would like to point that what AP classes you take depends a lot on your school and what it offers. A large high school in a big city is going to be able to offer more AP classes than a small high school in a rural area. The same goes for a school in a wealthier area versus a school in a poorer area. Schools aren't required to offer AP classes; it's something extra they can offer.

For example, at my high school (small county in rural Tennessee, with barely 1000 students in the entire HS), the only AP classes offered were AP History, AP English, and AP Calculus. There just weren't enough teachers willing to teach other AP classes or enough students to justify offering the class.

AP History was offered in 11th grade, while AP English and AP Calculus were only offered to 12th graders. That was mainly because AP History was offered in lieu of American History (which was required for 11th graders), AP English was offered in lieu of Senior English (which was required for 12th graders), and AP Calculus had prerequisites (Algebra II, which was given to 9th graders; Geometry, which was given to 10th graders; Trigonometry, which was given to 11th graders; and Pre-Calculus, which was offered the first semester of 12 grade).

Also, at my school at least, when you started high school you had to decide whether you were going to go on the college track, the dual track, or the vocational track. The college track meant you took honors and AP classes, because you were planning on going to college. The dual track was for kids who planned on going to a community college or who weren't 100% certain whether college was an option but didn't want to completely turn their backs on it. The vocational track was for kids who had no plans on going to college and focused less on academics and more on skills.

It was technically possible to switch tracks later on in your high school career, although it was typically someone on the college track moving to the dual or vocational track rather than the opposite. This is because some classes were only offered in certain grades, and if you started out taking the lower levels of required classes (English, history, math, etc.), the odds were you wouldn't be able to catch up enough to graduate on the college track.


2. Like others have said, it very much depends on the situation. Lots of people can talk a kid into going taking certain classes, whether or not it's actually good for the kid. At my school, it was mostly the guidance counselor and parents who went over such decisions with kids, but if you were a good student in a specific subject then sometimes a teacher might take interest.


3. At my school, it was solely the guidance counselor who advised about college. And, wow, did they not have a clue what they were talking about in the least bit. :-/


4. From my experience, the high achievers tend to get their ACT/SAT out of the way by spring of their junior year so that they can get applications in during the late spring/summer. Some schools tend to make early decisions, which sometimes offer better scholarships, for kids who apply early and are willing to make a decision. More normal students, unlike myself, wait until fall of their senior year to really start putting in applications, as non-early decisions at colleges are typically made in the spring.