In which I ask questions
Jul. 4th, 2013 01:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenayToday I am having the fun of arguing about the existence or otherwise of a table with the DBAs.
Hint: it exists.
Hint 2: half my code would be broken if it didn't exist.
Conclusion: clearly someone here has gone blind and it ain't me.
The argument is because I need them to change some columns and apparently if they declare it non-existent, they won't do the change. Except, uh, it's there. I'm looking right at the data I just selected from it.
*headdesk*
And people say my job doesn't require deep and meaningful thoughts on the wider issues at hand. I'm debating the nature of existence, guys! Totes deep and meaningful :-D
I was going to write a long and angry post about this year's most recent "Urgh, girl cooties are getting in my sci-fi!" thing but I'm not going to. It would be angry and ranty and it would just rehash all the things way more intelligent people than me (John Scalzi, Jim C. Hines, Seanan McGuire) have already sad. Go and read the blogs by those guys and join me in my continuing simmering anger!
So instead, I'm going to talk about writing and fic because that's always fun :-D And ask for input! Because I miss the really good comment discussions fandom had in Ye Olden Days.
A couple of days ago I was merrily browsing Tumblr and came across a discussion about someone possibly holding a "shameful trope fest" - i.e. a week of writing all the tropes that people get shamed over writing/reading/loving. Which actually sounds cool and a good way to maybe start reclaiming some of those tropes (songfic!) by exploring them with an eye to persuading people they can make awesome fic.
But on the list of tropes discussed, there was first person POV fic. Uh, that's a shameful trope?
*boggles*
I know, I know, there is a lot of first person done truly, monumentally badly. I wrote one of them myself and realised that this wasn't a writing style I'd ever be comfortable with. It's not my first choice when I'm reading, either, but this is a 'me' thing rather than a general 'all first person POV fic is bad' thing.
There are some amazing fics written in 1st person POV. Done well by someone who has the voice of the character perfectly, it brings the reader right into the story in a completely different way from even limited 3rd person. I really hadn't been aware that it was considered to be a bad trope by anyone. Has fanfic changed that much? It used to be that at least half the fanfic I stumbled over was first person. Was it just the fandoms I was in or has the 'accepted' style drifted a lot over the last decade? (And why does fanfic seem to have an 'accepted' style anyway?)
Please, go ahead and comment so I can better understand this surprising revelation :-D
And related to that, which tropes/formats/ideas do you particularly love and have been surprised by attitudes to? Which ones do you love despite opposition? Which ones do you long to see reclaimed by people writing amazing implementations for?
Hint: it exists.
Hint 2: half my code would be broken if it didn't exist.
Conclusion: clearly someone here has gone blind and it ain't me.
The argument is because I need them to change some columns and apparently if they declare it non-existent, they won't do the change. Except, uh, it's there. I'm looking right at the data I just selected from it.
*headdesk*
And people say my job doesn't require deep and meaningful thoughts on the wider issues at hand. I'm debating the nature of existence, guys! Totes deep and meaningful :-D
I was going to write a long and angry post about this year's most recent "Urgh, girl cooties are getting in my sci-fi!" thing but I'm not going to. It would be angry and ranty and it would just rehash all the things way more intelligent people than me (John Scalzi, Jim C. Hines, Seanan McGuire) have already sad. Go and read the blogs by those guys and join me in my continuing simmering anger!
So instead, I'm going to talk about writing and fic because that's always fun :-D And ask for input! Because I miss the really good comment discussions fandom had in Ye Olden Days.
A couple of days ago I was merrily browsing Tumblr and came across a discussion about someone possibly holding a "shameful trope fest" - i.e. a week of writing all the tropes that people get shamed over writing/reading/loving. Which actually sounds cool and a good way to maybe start reclaiming some of those tropes (songfic!) by exploring them with an eye to persuading people they can make awesome fic.
But on the list of tropes discussed, there was first person POV fic. Uh, that's a shameful trope?
*boggles*
I know, I know, there is a lot of first person done truly, monumentally badly. I wrote one of them myself and realised that this wasn't a writing style I'd ever be comfortable with. It's not my first choice when I'm reading, either, but this is a 'me' thing rather than a general 'all first person POV fic is bad' thing.
There are some amazing fics written in 1st person POV. Done well by someone who has the voice of the character perfectly, it brings the reader right into the story in a completely different way from even limited 3rd person. I really hadn't been aware that it was considered to be a bad trope by anyone. Has fanfic changed that much? It used to be that at least half the fanfic I stumbled over was first person. Was it just the fandoms I was in or has the 'accepted' style drifted a lot over the last decade? (And why does fanfic seem to have an 'accepted' style anyway?)
Please, go ahead and comment so I can better understand this surprising revelation :-D
And related to that, which tropes/formats/ideas do you particularly love and have been surprised by attitudes to? Which ones do you love despite opposition? Which ones do you long to see reclaimed by people writing amazing implementations for?
no subject
Date: 2013-07-04 05:50 pm (UTC)As to the first person POV, I haven't read that much lately, and I can't recall any in the early years I spent reading in Inuyasha and Harry Potter. I have always considered 1st person a hard POV to write, and while I've tried it recently (as yet unreleased fic), I couldn't maintain it even half way through the prologue.
Fanfic shouldn't have an 'accepted style'...no one way is correct, but I guess I can see snobbery and cliques everywhere. I will probably find myself grateful to sit on the sidelines as much as I do. Be interesting to see what others have to say about it.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-08 04:53 pm (UTC)It's the only way I can phrase it that doesn't leave me blind with rage :-D
I have always considered 1st person a hard POV to write, and while I've tried it recently (as yet unreleased fic), I couldn't maintain it even half way through the prologue.
I wrote and maintained it throughout a long fic. It's a *terrible* fic and a large part of the problem is that 1st person isn't my natural voice. Neither is current tense, which I've never tried because I know that I'd never maintain it and my fic would end up a mess of tenses and at least by sticking to what I'm familiar with, my tenses don't end up all over the place.
Maybe the POV thing is a fandom-specific thing. My early fandoms were Buffy and Stargate and a good percentage of what I was reading, particularly in SG, were first person. Which is why my first SG fic was first person before I slapped myself and reminded myself that I should write my way, not the the popular way for that fandom.
Fanfic shouldn't have an 'accepted style'...no one way is correct, but I guess I can see snobbery and cliques everywhere.
Yup, this is a true thing.
I will probably find myself grateful to sit on the sidelines as much as I do.
I tend to think of myself as sitting on the fringes of fic writing fandom, but then I get into discussions like this and realise I'm not :-D
no subject
Date: 2013-07-09 02:25 am (UTC)Hm, been so long since I started, in Inuyasha, that I'm just not sure - but I don't think 1st POV was the main POV.
Heh, you are closer to the center than I, as I have no idea this stuff happens.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-05 02:17 pm (UTC)Well as you know I think that's really what the problem is, at heart. I know we've "talked" about this on tumblr/twitter, but I wanted to comment to say I think you really captured the whole thing with that question.
Somehow I think it's all linked back to shame, really; and I could write more, but suffice to say, I think it's unfortunate that the insecurity of others (particularly in regards to numerous BNFs who try to mandate community opinions) stifles the creativity of so many. :(
no subject
Date: 2013-07-08 04:53 pm (UTC)Our chats about it are one of the things that spurred this post :-D
Somehow I think it's all linked back to shame, really; and I could write more, but suffice to say, I think it's unfortunate that the insecurity of others (particularly in regards to numerous BNFs who try to mandate community opinions) stifles the creativity of so many. :(
Fanfic *should* be a medium where experimentation in style and ideas is encouraged. We don't write for publishers so why shouldn't we play with it and try different things and sometimes write totally self-indulgent fics just for the hell of it?
But sadly that utopia is not what we have and people search for approval so they look to the popular people, the BNFs, to see how to do it 'right' and we end up with this tangle of shame and uncertainty over style and tropes that makes me sad.