Some fandom thoughts. Don't die from the shock

[selenay]

It's kind of an extension of a discussion on FDAS, but someone mentioned Joss, Firefly and Stargate in the same breath. I got to thinking about Joss writing Stargate. And someone else (possibly not realising the deep Janet love over here) suggested that he'd write Sam/Janet into canon with ghost!Janet just to make it more tragic.


I got to remembering the whole Willow/Tara plot. The beauty. The pain. The amazing relationship he created.

And now I want Sam/Janet ala Joss, because it's a show plot that would keep me glued to the set and worshiping at Joss's feet. So many cool things that could have been done.

Then, of course, my mind went into other places and I started wondering whether the reason that Stargate hasn't really caught my imagination for the past while is that the show doesn't have the same soul that it in the early seasons. Sure, the story-lines can be interesting. I'm watching my team. But it doesn't have that 'thing', whatever it was, that caught me up started me imagining the possibilities in the characters.

This comes on top of recapturing the Teyla/Weir muse. Atlantis has the 'thing' that I've been missing from SG. I'm waiting impatiently for the new season and the show has caught my imagination, firing me up to write fanfic. It's actually got me writing femslash, something that hadn't happened for a couple of years, despite the prevailing Sheppard/McKay bias. It got me writing slightly angsty, not-easily-resolved femslash.

I have no idea where I'm going with these thoughts. I've fought against canon Stargate becoming a hideous soap opera for years (that may explain my dislike of overt Sam/Jack ship). But the idea of what a writer like Joss could have done with the concept makes me kind of sad because I miss that 'thing' that made me fall in love with Stargate.

Of couse, I wouldn't object to a writer like Russel T Davies after his work on Doctor Who, either. He's showing how well UST between two leads can work without ever forcing it - I actually like the Rose-Doctor UST, which is truly amazing.

Oddly, my difficulty with Stargate doesn't seem to be extending to AUs. I'm still fired up about the sequel to *that* fic. Is it because it's Stargate but not? Is it because I can do things with it that I can't with Stargate? Or is it just that I'm over-analysing it?


In other dilemmas, I definitely don't want to go to Wolf Pegasus One. Absolutely. No way. Nu-uh. Believe me yet?

Comments

[munchkinott.livejournal.com]

But it doesn't have that 'thing', whatever it was, that caught me up started me imagining the possibilities in the characters.

I saw a few eps of the last season annnnnd meh. Don't know why but SG-1 just hasn't got a heart anymore. It used to be thrilling AND nuts and nutty and a little bit scary - but now the Asgard'll bail 'em out or it's Death? SCHMETH! Ascend/descend - welcome to the yo-yo of life. I think everything on SG-1's become easier - easy solutions, simpler problems, always a friend to come to the rescue. It's lost the main mechanisms that drove the drama and tension in the first couple of series. Which is sad.

I definitely don't want to go to Wolf Pegasus One. Absolutely. No way. Nu-uh.

You do. The power of the madness compells you. *pimp pimp pimp*

[selenay]

It's lost the main mechanisms that drove the drama and tension in the first couple of series. Which is sad.

I'm thinking that you might have identified the stuff that I was trying to articulate. The resolutions are too easy. Admittedly they can do cool stuff that didn't even get considered during the early seasons and some of the alien alliance diplomacy stuff is interesting, but there isn't really any sense of danger or excitement for me anymore. Very sad.

You do. The power of the madness compells you. *pimp pimp pimp*

::covers ears:: Not listening! I'm not listening! Really. Truly. Honestly.

[riverfox.livejournal.com]

Oddly, my difficulty with Stargate doesn't seem to be extending to AUs. I'm still fired up about the sequel to *that* fic. Is it because it's Stargate but not?

Yep.

Is it because I can do things with it that I can't with Stargate?

Yep.

Or is it just that I'm over-analysing it?

Nope.

;-)))

The thing with writing SG fic, for me, is that I'm still psyched about doing it. I have loads of stories to do, I rarely run out of PBs, and I look forward to what I can think up next. It doesn't really matter if people think it's crap or not (except my friends, and they matter). It's my own opinion on the stuff and whether I want to do it. ;-)

I've several things going, but the one I'm working on isn't fic but a cynical slasher's view of the episodes. Not a summary, but close. Occasional lapses in slash observation *gg* but mostly, just a cynical, satirical view of the episodes and what the PTB were likely thinking at the time.

I have found, strangely, that I can make fun of my favorite episodes without batting an eyelash and I'm trying to figure out if that's good or bad. *gg*

My next *new* fic is a satire. Whether it's funny or sad, who knows. But since I did a fic on doggies, lampooning a certain author, I thought that Shipfic and the incessant Jack/Sam should be lampooned instead of bitchfested about. *And* I still have to write a B-day prezzie for Cats. Busy bee. And how can I do all this with a bum shoulder? I can't. Damn it. Slow going, that's me. BUT. Screen capping Firefly doesn't bother my shoulder. Woohoo. ;-) I'll let everyone know when I've a wallpaper made. :-)

[selenay]

Nope.

;-)))

Well, it's reassuring to know that much :-)

Is it because I can do things with it that I can't with Stargate?

Yep.

I'm starting to think that this is the core of it. There are so many stories that I can tell that I just couldn't in the Stargate universe. Some of them may bear a passing familiarity, but mostly it's a chance to find out what those characters will do in the new situations I dump them in.

And I still have fun with it. Another thing that seems to have been missing from my Stargate writing.

Well, except for the 5 things fic, which was fun to write because I got to think up insane situations. Hmm....

I have loads of stories to do, I rarely run out of PBs, and I look forward to what I can think up next.

I have stories. I have a file filled with PBs that I could write. But then I try to write one of them - even ideas that I loved when the concept bit - and nothing happens. I have PBs for Atlantis and the excitement, or whatever the thing is, to write them. I have ideas for Serpent and they just keep developing in my head, getting more complex and vivid until I have to write them down or go insane.

That's the bit that I miss about writing Stargate fic, I guess. That *need* to write down these ideas that are spinning around my head before they drive me nuts :-(

I have found, strangely, that I can make fun of my favorite episodes without batting an eyelash and I'm trying to figure out if that's good or bad. *gg*

*snort* Fine by me :-) I love my shows, but that doesn't mean that I can't see their faults. And Stargate has one hell of a lot of faults. Mock, satire - whatever you want :-)

I'll let everyone know when I've a wallpaper made. :-)

Convert! And just as I've converted! And you make such lovely WPs :-))

[riverfox.livejournal.com]

Convert! And just as I've converted! And you make such lovely WPs :-))

Well, we'll see what happens. Using a mouse is aching for my shoulder, so it'll be V. slow-going.

But then I try to write one of them - even ideas that I loved when the concept bit - and nothing happens.

Oh, I have dozens of *those*. Grrrrrr. I was thinking of my Trinity sequel series, Trilogy, more than anything else. Still, I have a *serious* fic that I need to get done and haven't because it *is* so serious, so 'daunting' would be a better word for me where some fics are concerned. It's not so much writing it as it is in placing the informatin where I need it and structuring scenes properly. Such a pain in the asset.*gg*

[selenay]

Using a mouse is aching for my shoulder, so it'll be V. slow-going.

{{{hugs}}} Don't damage yourself! Take everything as slowly as you need to. Is there any hope of getting the shoulder fixed?

It's not so much writing it as it is in placing the informatin where I need it and structuring scenes properly. Such a pain in the asset.*gg*

Ah, yet another problem. The idea is there in your head and you can see it all, but actually forming sentences that do justice and express the idea properly? Not so easy :-(

[riverfox.livejournal.com]

Is there any hope of getting the shoulder fixed?

As it's job-related, it's being paid for by the government, and so they're dragging their heels in determining whether or not they'll pay for the needed surgery. *sighs* In the meantime, I make do.


The idea is there in your head and you can see it all, but actually forming sentences that do justice and express the idea properly? Not so easy :-(

No, not so easy. I mean, I can *write* the stuff down, and have, but then I go back to a certain scene, decide that it has too much information placed in the wrong place and I delete it, rewrite, then move down to where that information is to be presented, write a little more, go back to previous scenes to continue with timeline and how it'll read... *sighs* What I'm specifically talking about, if you don't mind my explaining and boring the shit out of you, *gg* is writing a psychological fic on how the effects of PTSD have finally cut loose within Daniel. Speaking specifically about Hathor's rape, 7 years after the fact.

See, I used to *hate* Into the Fire because it so clearly skipped over Daniel's reunion with Hathor. He was "uncomfortable" around her and that was it. While the point of the ep was to focus on Jack's impending snaking and then on Jack/Sam, that always annoyed me. But if I put it in a PTSD reference, I can then dismiss it. I don't like how the PTB did the ep, but that's neither here nor there. Point is this: In writing the fic, and placing the PTSD info where it needs to go, I sometimes got ahead of myself and had to restructure. Janet's not a shrink, despite how they tried to make her out to be one in Lifeboat, ::snorts:: and some of the things I had her talking to him about just didn't mesh right. I had to pull her back, limit what she says to Daniel before referring him to the new psychiatrist/analyst. I won't dare put MacKenzie in this fic. That's ludicrous. *g* Anyway, presenting Janet's scenes, then moving forward in the fic to write out some of the scenes with the shrink was a little annoying in that I *changed my mind* about five times in what I wanted said and where. *gg* Then there's Jack and Daniel's scenes and what Jack can say and do (or rather, what I'll allow) and later how they'll eventually become intimate, but in a way that's not so much lovey-dovey as it is mutually beneficial. Tis not a happy ending fic, but it's a hopeful ending fic that leaves things 'okay.' So, getting that all coordinated is especially annoying when my brain thinks up new scenes to put in the fic. I hate it when I think up a scene I really like but can't use, and end up stashing it in notes never to be heard from again. I hate my brain when it does that.

[selenay]

In the meantime, I make do.

Grrr. Crappy governments.

boring the shit out of you

Nope, not boring.

Speaking specifically about Hathor's rape, 7 years after the fact.

Cool, you're going to write it :-) We've chattered about the problems with the whole Hathor plot before, so I'm very glad that you're going to tackle it.

Tis not a happy ending fic, but it's a hopeful ending fic that leaves things 'okay.'

That is probably more appropriate than a snuggly, sugar-shock inducing ending could be. Tackling issues like that make for a serious, thoughtful fic and tacking on an inappropriately lovey-dovey, "we'll have sex and you'll be healed" ending would...er...drag it down to the level of 95% of H/C fic.

I hate my brain when it does that.

*g* I sympathise a lot. My brain comes up with wonderful scenes and ideas for a fic that I can't use because they make no sense in that context. Grrr.

One of my biggest problems in fics is the inappropriate POV. I handwrite any longer fics before typing up, which is probably a good thing. There are some scenes where I write the first draft from one character's POV and it all seems like the right thing to do at the time. Then I read it over prior to typing it up and realise that I've picked on completely the wrong character. In one case, in a scene during Serpent, I'd used the POV of a character that had no business being in that scene. It was a discussion between Tir'ac and Jak - the "why are you helping us?" thing - and I'd written it from Denil's POV. There was no good reason for Denil to be there, I'd given him one token line that would have been better coming from Jak, he served no purpose and added nothing to the scene. It involved an extensive rewrite to swap it to Jak's POV and delete Denil, but the end result worked far better.

It's possibly one of the difficulties of writing strict third person POV, but it seems to be something that I encounter regularly. The wrong POV. The character who just shouldn't be there. The scene that, while cool or cute or interesting, does nothing from the fic and in some cases just slows the action. I deleted a couple of long speeches from the climax of Serpent because they were just daft. Um, running for your life? Do you really stop to have a detailed technical and philosphical discussion of magic and it's use in the escape plan?

I hate my brain because it always wants to add excessive details that just aren't needed. It's like I have this insane urge to explain every teeny tiny detail, whether or not it's appropriate.

And wow, that was a ramble.

[riverfox.livejournal.com]

Cool, you're going to write it :-) We've chattered about the problems with the whole Hathor plot before, so I'm very glad that you're going to tackle it.

It's about... mmmm, a third of the way done. Have a lot of stuff I wish to put in there and more dratted bunny scenes keep popping into my frond. *gg* It's *very* hard, no pun intended, to keep from destroying the theme with sex because that's mostly what I'm used to writing. *g*

"we'll have sex and you'll be healed" ending would...er...drag it down to the level of 95% of H/C fic.

Gah. I definitely won't ruin it with a "fuck and make it better" scene. As for H/C, this *isn't* an H/C fic. There's inner hurt, there's a little physical and emotional comfort, and there's a lot of thinking and talking. There's sex, of course, and with bit of BDSM (and not through Jack). It's that road that Daniel takes in order to deal with his emotional issues himself rather than bottle them up. But the "Catalyst" creating scenes happen when he foregoes that avenue for too long a period of time, thinking he doesn't need it. Except he does, because he doesn't have anyone to go to to help ease his inner turmoil. There's no one he trusts enough for that, even Jack. But he learns that he can trust a little, that he can let go, and that after a while, he'll start to trust himself as well--and *that* is the entire point of the fic. Or at least, it is to me. Whether I succeed in getting that across is another matter. Every reader sees only what they want to. *bg*


and I'd written it from Denil's POV...

I know *exactly* what you mean and I'm struggling to keep from doing that with Janet. She's not the shrink, yet I keep trying to make her one because she's so insightful and caring and it's an easy trap to fall into. *sighs*

but the end result worked far better.

It must have because I didn't see any pov problems whatsoever. :-)))


It's possibly one of the difficulties of writing strict third person POV, but it seems to be something that I encounter regularly. The wrong POV.

I prefer Third Person pov. The problem I had when starting Catalyst was whether or not to write it in past or present tense. I decided on past because it's what I'm used to... and also because it's harder for me to fall back into writing past tense after I've been writing in present.

Um, running for your life? Do you really stop to have a detailed technical and philosphical discussion of magic and it's use in the escape plan?

*sniggers* Erm, yeah, I can see the problem there. LOL Plus, it also tends to bog down the flow of the read if there's suddenly a bunch of pov narrative instead of moving forward with the scene. Like a hiccup, when you're reading, and I find that annoying when I do that.

It's like I have this insane urge to explain every teeny tiny detail, whether or not it's appropriate.

There's this thing in your head, when writing, that says "use this, use that, and don't forget this, and oh, what about this, and did you mention that?..." and you just want to stick a pin in your head when your muse does that. At least, I do. *g*


And wow, that was a ramble.

And wow, I didn't mind (look what I did, fcol). I love to hash about writing. :-)

[selenay]

It's *very* hard, no pun intended, to keep from destroying the theme with sex because that's mostly what I'm used to writing. *g*

*g* I can see your problem there :-)

Every reader sees only what they want to. *bg*

*sigh* Sadly, it's true. Hopefully, though, they'll actually get what you're doing because it sounds like it should be a fascinating fic to read. You're taking a completely different approach to the ideas - not something that I see often in fanfic, sadly.

It must have because I didn't see any pov problems whatsoever. :-)))

*g* Cool. You would definitely have seen the POV problems in the first draft. Gah.

and also because it's harder for me to fall back into writing past tense after I've been writing in present.

I've never been able to write in present tense, except in the one experiment with first person that I still think people are nuts for liking *g* Third person past - and it needs to be strictly third person, none of the random omniscient stuff that pops up in fics that started out in strict third - is the natural voice that I fall into when I'm writing. I also find it easier to read. I wonder whether that's significant? I see a lot of people who always write in first and they're the ones who say they prefer reading in first, too. They claim that third person isn't as intimate as first.

I've always found third person just as absorbing, just as intimate, as first person and it doesn't have the problems of attempting to 'be' characters that you can't relate to. I didn't express that well, did I?

Plus, it also tends to bog down the flow of the read if there's suddenly a bunch of pov narrative instead of moving forward with the scene.

Exactly. There are places where a bit of POV narrative is appropriate. The middle of a big action scene ain't one of them. Bogging down the action with unneeded details is annoying for the readers, pulls them out of the story and the writer should be able to find another way around it. Can those details be mentioned previously at a more sensible point in the story? Are those details needed at all?

There's this thing in your head, when writing, that says "use this, use that, and don't forget this, and oh, what about this, and did you mention that?..." and you just want to stick a pin in your head when your muse does that.

Yup, I know what you mean :-) It's particularly annoying when you've created a world - there's a voice in your head saying "hey, but will people know that? And that's a cool idea - use it? Oh, and don't forget about..."

I swear that's why you get so many fantasy and sci-fi novels with ridculous amounts of exposition and description - the authors had that little voice and couldn't shut it up :-)

I love to hash about writing. :-)

*g* Me too :-) It's useful, it's fun and sometimes you even end up with ideas from it.

[riverfox.livejournal.com]

*sigh* Sadly, it's true. Hopefully, though, they'll actually get what you're doing because it sounds like it should be a fascinating fic to read. You're taking a completely different approach to the ideas - not something that I see often in fanfic, sadly.

::sighs too::
Just *why* is that? You'd think readers/writers would have more insight or brains where Daniel is concerned. BUT... perhaps they're a reflection of the show's writers... which is a pretty scary thought isn't it? Makes me think that my usual version of shallow writing isn't as shallow as I thought. *smirks*

I've never been able to write in present tense, except in the one experiment with first person that I still think people are nuts for liking *g*

First Person? Don't even get me started. (too late) I tried to write FP, but I can't do anything other than come up with smut. Others, like DM, prefer to write it, but not me. I don't care for reading it, either. It makes me feel like I'm reading the author, not the character.

They claim that third person isn't as intimate as first.

Huh. I don't see it, because I only see the writer's voice, not the character's. Some can make me forget that, but not many. Frankly, first person always reminds me of male porn writing, like what you'd find at Nifty.com. Most of the stories there are written in FP and just a personal take on whatever daydream they're having. ;-p

I've always found third person just as absorbing, just as intimate, as first person and it doesn't have the problems of attempting to 'be' characters that you can't relate to. I didn't express that well, did I?

You did, because I'm sitting here nodding, agreeing with you. *g*

with unneeded details is annoying for the readers, pulls them out of the story and the writer should be able to find another way around it. Can those details be mentioned previously at a more sensible point in the story? Are those details needed at all?

In the middle of an action scene? Not really, but then it's a fine line to write a "descriptive" scene without putting in "personal" pov from the view of either the character or the author. There's the opposite of this when writing the beginning of a story. Beginnings *always* require a bit of explanation, except when writing porn. *g* I get annoyed that some find story beginnings boring, but if you omit them, then you have people asking why there wasn't more. *rolls eyes*


there's a voice in your head saying "hey, but will people know that?...

Another fine line, but I often go with the writer's rule that says "don't over explain" or just "leave it." The reader has to bury themselves in the story and use their suspension of disbelief, and if they don't, that's not the writer's fault. As stated before, readers will see only what they want to.

But then...

I swear that's why you get so many fantasy and sci-fi novels with ridculous amounts of exposition and description - the authors had that little voice and couldn't shut it up :-)

Sometimes, I don't mind that, but it depends on the story and the writer and if they've managed to grab me enough so I don't mind. *g*

*g* Me too :-) It's useful, it's fun and sometimes you even end up with ideas from it.

Always. Talking about Catalyst always gives me new ideas on how a scene will go. But then, I can also get those ideas right before bed and I just want to kick myself when I do that. All I want to do is stay up and write but my brain and writing ability are at odds so I usually don't even bother getting into that little scuffle. *g*

[sazandra.livejournal.com]

I definitely don't want to go to Wolf Pegasus One. Absolutely. No way. Nu-uh.

I expect to see you there then.

Believe me yet?

Nope

[selenay]

I expect to see you there then.

*snort* The credit card is staying firmly away from that website until after the Canada trip. Then I'll count up the pennies and see.

D'oh! That sounded like I've started to crumble :-(

It's just...well...none of you lot will want to go to an Atlantis con. And I'll be stuck with thousands of insane Atlantis fans (who actually make SG look fairly sane), hunting for the sane side of the fandom for an entire weekend.

*wibble*

[sazandra.livejournal.com]

The credit card is staying firmly away from that website until after the Canada trip. Then I'll count up the pennies and see.

Very sensible

D'oh! That sounded like I've started to crumble :-(

Yes

It's just...well...none of you lot will want to go to an Atlantis con. And I'll be stuck with thousands of insane Atlantis fans (who actually make SG look fairly sane), hunting for the sane side of the fandom for an entire weekend.

There are some fairly insane SG fans at Wolf cons anyway. I'll need my con "fix" in February so I've booked.

*wibble*

lol

[selenay]

Very sensible

I know. Scary, isn't it?

There are some fairly insane SG fans at Wolf cons anyway.

Yup, there are. But the insanity quotient in Atlantis just seems higher. Or maybe it's the fault of the lists that I'm on *g*

[sazandra.livejournal.com]

I know. Scary, isn't it?

Very ;-)

But the insanity quotient in Atlantis just seems higher.

Maybe because it's all relatively new so the bright, shiny new insanity stuff hasn't become jaded yet?

Or maybe it's the fault of the lists that I'm on *g*

Could be. I haven't joined a single Atlantis list, think the novelty of lists has well and truely worn off as far as I'm concerned. I used to belong to 20+ SG-1 lists, I think I maybe down into single figures these days.

[selenay]

Maybe because it's all relatively new so the bright, shiny new insanity stuff hasn't become jaded yet?

That could be it :-) I've never been in a fandom at the beginning - usually by the time I discover it, the fandom has become jaded and irritated by the writers and people haven't got any new ideas. The shiny newness could be the source of the unusual levels of insanity :-)

I used to belong to 20+ SG-1 lists, I think I maybe down into single figures these days.

I never belonged to that number, but I have also cut down a lot :-) Maybe I'm jaded and cynical, but there's only a couple of lists that I actually have any desire to read the mail from. LiveJournal actually seems to get the more interesting stuff these days - which really is a commentary on fandom. I've even stopped reading AG for the entertainment value - they hadn't gone nutsy in a while and I hadn't even had time to look at the headers to find out what the latest insanity was. So I've gone no mail.

It feels strange to have such a small mail download every day :-)

[paranoidangel]

In other dilemmas, I definitely don't want to go to Wolf Pegasus One.

That is such a crap website I can't find a thing. Like, oh, what is Wolf Pegasus One?

[selenay]

Like, oh, what is Wolf Pegasus One?

It's apparently the Wolf Atlantis con :-) And yes, that website is appauling. The only reason I found out about Pegasus One is that someone else mentioned it and I hunted until I discovered the right page entirely by accident. At the moment, if you find the ticket store, you can buy tickets but I can't find official page for it. Dang.

It's the first weekend in Feb. And Rainbow Sun Francks has been announced. Just so you know :-)

[paranoidangel]

I knew who the guest was but that was it.

I thought Brian's never doing an Atlantis con? Perhaps it's the same as he's not doing another Stargate con after SG5/10 (delete as appropriate).

[selenay]

*g* I expect it's exactly like that. SG-5 was, after all, the last Stargate con :-)

I suspect that SG-10 might really be the last Wolf Stargate con, particularly now that Creation seem to be moving in, but I'm also suspecting that Peg One will bare a remarkable resemblance to an SG con, just with slightly different logo designs. With the potential cross-overs, there may even be Stargate guests being grabbed. After all, we're having an Atlantis recurring actor at SG-10 *g*

Brian, methinks, figured out that although he might not like Atlantis, there are enough fans to make a con worthwile *g*