Another day, another AG explosion
Sep. 28th, 2004 12:14 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenayWhenever I have over 100 messages downloaded into my AG folder, it immediately tells me that they've found a new wank. I don't even have to look check the subject headers to guess that more than 70% will have the same (or a related) title. I just *know*. Normally I just mark it all as read without delving into it because I care about my blood pressure. This time, though, the subject under discussion was warnings, one of the fanfic things that I've put a fair amount of thought into.
I'm one of those unpopular people who would like to have warnings available on fic. If there is no warning on a fic then I assume I'm not going to find a graphic rape scene in the middle of it, none of my favourite characters are going to die and nobody will be tied up, whipped, cut and buggered in a frenzy of orgasmic (to the writer) pleasure. These situations are things that I would like to be warned for because I really, really, really don't want to read them.
This doesn't mean that I want a great, honking, flashing sign on the screen saying "Danger! Possible graphic sex and bad language ahead!" If the rating is NC-17 then I assume that the sex will be graphic, the language may not make Mary Whitehouse happy and there's a chance that there may be violence in the story. I am honestly not that stupid or naive. I use the rating as a gauge on what level the fic is likely to be at.
But there are certain things (like death fic, rape fic, heavy BDSM, graphic, lovingly described torture) that I would like to have warnings available for. Very early in my fanfic career I read an unmarked, unwarned rape fic that nearly put me off fanfic for life. It was a very nervous, hesitant Sel that returned to the archives a few weeks later and got sucked back into fandom.
This doesn't mean that you need to put the warnings right up there at the top of the fic. Make them available and give me the choice of checking them out or forging on without caring. On my review archive, I make warnings available and it's up to the user as to whether they click the link to check the warnings or just go straight to the fic. No author has ever complained - in fact, I've had a number of authors and readers compliment me on the diplomatic solution to a perennial fandom problem. Put the warnings into a little pop-up that I can choose to open, hide them by giving them the same colour text as the background so that I have to highlight them to read them - I don't care how you do it. Just make them available and let me choose whether I want to be spoiled or not. I will not be a happy bunny if I read a fic that had no warnings and find one of my major squicks lurking in the middle of the fic. I won't flame you, but I won't read anything you write again and, if the fic was on an archive, I'll probably avoid the archive completely. I will have nightmares afterwards, be grouchy for a few days and probably hide myself in a favourite old book (not fic) until I feel better. And my insistence on warnings will just increase.
I do think that some warnings are ridiculous. Honestly, I think I can guess that there will be graphic het sex scenes in an NC-17 fic that is marked het or has a het pairing in the summary information. I don't expect Jack to talk like a BBC newsreader in an NC-17 fic. Partner betrayal doesn't feel like something that really needs a warning. I've never seen the point in an 'intense situations' warning because that really doesn't mean anything. One person's drama is another person's angsty tortured soul. I would appreciate a warning for excessively graphic violence, but it won't kill me if you don't provide it. Warnings for rape, death, underage content, heavy BDSM and related areas are, IMO, necessary.
As wanky as the AG is, I think that this is one area that they've handled well. I like the idea of a part zero post with each fic containing the summary, rating etc. It gives people the option of checking this stuff out (because some people object to having more than just a fic title and author) or jumping straight in. The part zero also allows authors to put warnings in under spoiler space - it's up the reader whether they're spoiled or not. You can read as much or as little of the information as you want to because you don't need to page through it to get to the fic - the fic is in a separate post. To my mind, it's a good compromise.
The debate on the AG is currently waging around whether people should be allowed to put 'Warnings withheld' instead of listing the warnings. As long as people aren't using that instead of stating 'no warnings' then I have no problem with that. As Rauhnee has stated, only a small percentage of authors will probably take advantage of that option and you can always email an author to ask what the warnings are if you're that concerned about missing out on a good fic. It keeps the element of surprise that an author may want and I'll probably just skip the fic or ask someone else about it.
As has been pointed out by others over the years, the information given with a fic takes the place of a book cover. I'm one of the people who usually looks at the cover illustration and reads the blurb when deciding whether to read a book. I don't usually read the first or last page - the cover gives me enough information to know whether the book may interest me. I rely on fic information to give me the same details, which is one of the reasons why summaries consisting of a random line of dialogue or even just one word irritate me. There are things that I can read in a book (death, occasionally rape) that I simply can't read in fanfic. I don't know why, but there it is. Usually, though, the book cover tells me whether I'm dealing with an angsty, unhappy book or a fluffy happy book and I'm able to be prepared for whatever comes. I'm also not reading about characters that I watch on a TV screen and write about myself. There's a different kind of emotional intimacy between reading something that an author is doing to her characters and reading something that a fanfic author is doing to those guys on the screen that I watch every week. Maybe I'm crazy, but that's the way my reading works.
What it comes down to is handling warnings in a way that helps as many people as possible. If you're an author who really objects to having any kind of spoiler on your fic, even an optional one, then don't yell when someone a little less forgiving than me flames you because they read an unmarked rape fic and it triggered a flashback. Even the 'warnings withheld' option hidden in a clickable popup gives readers the option of looking and skipping merrily past your fic or emailing to say "I don't read rape fics - is your fic safe? Don't tell me what the surprise is."
And that turned into a much longer post than I intended it to be.
I'm one of those unpopular people who would like to have warnings available on fic. If there is no warning on a fic then I assume I'm not going to find a graphic rape scene in the middle of it, none of my favourite characters are going to die and nobody will be tied up, whipped, cut and buggered in a frenzy of orgasmic (to the writer) pleasure. These situations are things that I would like to be warned for because I really, really, really don't want to read them.
This doesn't mean that I want a great, honking, flashing sign on the screen saying "Danger! Possible graphic sex and bad language ahead!" If the rating is NC-17 then I assume that the sex will be graphic, the language may not make Mary Whitehouse happy and there's a chance that there may be violence in the story. I am honestly not that stupid or naive. I use the rating as a gauge on what level the fic is likely to be at.
But there are certain things (like death fic, rape fic, heavy BDSM, graphic, lovingly described torture) that I would like to have warnings available for. Very early in my fanfic career I read an unmarked, unwarned rape fic that nearly put me off fanfic for life. It was a very nervous, hesitant Sel that returned to the archives a few weeks later and got sucked back into fandom.
This doesn't mean that you need to put the warnings right up there at the top of the fic. Make them available and give me the choice of checking them out or forging on without caring. On my review archive, I make warnings available and it's up to the user as to whether they click the link to check the warnings or just go straight to the fic. No author has ever complained - in fact, I've had a number of authors and readers compliment me on the diplomatic solution to a perennial fandom problem. Put the warnings into a little pop-up that I can choose to open, hide them by giving them the same colour text as the background so that I have to highlight them to read them - I don't care how you do it. Just make them available and let me choose whether I want to be spoiled or not. I will not be a happy bunny if I read a fic that had no warnings and find one of my major squicks lurking in the middle of the fic. I won't flame you, but I won't read anything you write again and, if the fic was on an archive, I'll probably avoid the archive completely. I will have nightmares afterwards, be grouchy for a few days and probably hide myself in a favourite old book (not fic) until I feel better. And my insistence on warnings will just increase.
I do think that some warnings are ridiculous. Honestly, I think I can guess that there will be graphic het sex scenes in an NC-17 fic that is marked het or has a het pairing in the summary information. I don't expect Jack to talk like a BBC newsreader in an NC-17 fic. Partner betrayal doesn't feel like something that really needs a warning. I've never seen the point in an 'intense situations' warning because that really doesn't mean anything. One person's drama is another person's angsty tortured soul. I would appreciate a warning for excessively graphic violence, but it won't kill me if you don't provide it. Warnings for rape, death, underage content, heavy BDSM and related areas are, IMO, necessary.
As wanky as the AG is, I think that this is one area that they've handled well. I like the idea of a part zero post with each fic containing the summary, rating etc. It gives people the option of checking this stuff out (because some people object to having more than just a fic title and author) or jumping straight in. The part zero also allows authors to put warnings in under spoiler space - it's up the reader whether they're spoiled or not. You can read as much or as little of the information as you want to because you don't need to page through it to get to the fic - the fic is in a separate post. To my mind, it's a good compromise.
The debate on the AG is currently waging around whether people should be allowed to put 'Warnings withheld' instead of listing the warnings. As long as people aren't using that instead of stating 'no warnings' then I have no problem with that. As Rauhnee has stated, only a small percentage of authors will probably take advantage of that option and you can always email an author to ask what the warnings are if you're that concerned about missing out on a good fic. It keeps the element of surprise that an author may want and I'll probably just skip the fic or ask someone else about it.
As has been pointed out by others over the years, the information given with a fic takes the place of a book cover. I'm one of the people who usually looks at the cover illustration and reads the blurb when deciding whether to read a book. I don't usually read the first or last page - the cover gives me enough information to know whether the book may interest me. I rely on fic information to give me the same details, which is one of the reasons why summaries consisting of a random line of dialogue or even just one word irritate me. There are things that I can read in a book (death, occasionally rape) that I simply can't read in fanfic. I don't know why, but there it is. Usually, though, the book cover tells me whether I'm dealing with an angsty, unhappy book or a fluffy happy book and I'm able to be prepared for whatever comes. I'm also not reading about characters that I watch on a TV screen and write about myself. There's a different kind of emotional intimacy between reading something that an author is doing to her characters and reading something that a fanfic author is doing to those guys on the screen that I watch every week. Maybe I'm crazy, but that's the way my reading works.
What it comes down to is handling warnings in a way that helps as many people as possible. If you're an author who really objects to having any kind of spoiler on your fic, even an optional one, then don't yell when someone a little less forgiving than me flames you because they read an unmarked rape fic and it triggered a flashback. Even the 'warnings withheld' option hidden in a clickable popup gives readers the option of looking and skipping merrily past your fic or emailing to say "I don't read rape fics - is your fic safe? Don't tell me what the surprise is."
And that turned into a much longer post than I intended it to be.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-30 03:18 pm (UTC)That's not a bad incentive. I'm figuring that when I rejoin the ranks of the employed, I'll finally splurge on the paid account. That gives me a motive for passing this darned degree so that I can be employed :-)
In this fandom I don't seem to be able to shut up.
::snort:: I have no idea why, but this fandom seems to cause that in many people. I'm not sure that it is because this fandom still has new eps showing or not - things in the Buffy fandom were much more stable and less bitchy during airing time. I got involved towards the end of season 2, actively contributed to the Bronze for a couple of years and still chat to old Buffy friends and they don't report Stargate-like stuff. I've come to the conclusion that SG is just a weird fandom with strange habits that get people far more
riled uppassionate than most other fandoms.That woman is not rowing with both oars.
::snort:: Best explanation I've seen all day :-)
I don't expect anyone, certainly not a List 'Mom,' to protect me from other people's opinions of my writing, my personality, or my stunning good-looks.
I think that I read it a different way - after a bad experience with an obssessive stalker, they were trying to reduce the chances of a recurrance. It could have been phrased better and the implication that it's your own stupid fault if you miss out warnings and get stalked is a bit too strong, but at the time I think they were trying to do their best in the face of a frightening problem. The idea behind the list rule to provide warnings was well-meant, but telling people that you can't blame the deranged fan who is stalking you because you didn't provide sufficient warnings on the fic goes too far.
I thought about saying all of that onlist for about all of five seconds, then decided adding fuel to a fire I had helped ignite in the first place would be a bad idea.
Er, yes. I can see how that might...cause tuna gate to self combust again.
Some nasty things were said by both sides.
::nods:: Strangely, this was one of the better conducted disputes on the AG. Normally the first flame would have appeared three posts in. But I don't think that list is capable of holding a discussion on anything even slightly controversial without eventually descending into name-calling and nastiness ::snigh::
However, the people who whined that writers who didn't want to include warnings were depriving them of their fic or disrespecting their issues, those people need to take a little responsiblity for themselves.
Grrrrr. That arguement was totally inane. The discussion wasn't about leaving off warnings about everything - it was about adding a 'warning withheld' option that would probably be used rarely anyway. Whinging that writers were depriving readers of their favourite rape fic because the reader doesn't want to take the chance of reading a death fic is just silly. It isn't as though they were proposing that all fics on the AG would be without warnings so you'd never be able to tell whether you were opening a fluffy jammie fic or a brutal rape fic. The odds are that there will only be a few fics where the warning doesn't give away the exact nature of the disturbing elements - I honestly don't think that it will be too difficult for readers to find out whether it's a fic they'd want to read even with that. Most of those posters seemed to feel that it was a mass conspiracy by all writers to deprive those readers of their favourite fic types.
Lastly, that whole list needs to acquire a sense of humor.
Oh, boy, yes. I'm sure they weren't quite so....nutso when the list began. I discinctly remember that the first couple of months were *fun*.
Buffy and Faith were made by kamilaa.
::icon droolage:: Those icons are *good*. Tara is lovely - I met Amber Benson at a signing in London a few years ago and she's even more lovely in person. Beautiful eyes.
Now, which pretty new icon shall I upload to replace Keira...