Another day, another AG explosion
Sep. 28th, 2004 12:14 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenayWhenever I have over 100 messages downloaded into my AG folder, it immediately tells me that they've found a new wank. I don't even have to look check the subject headers to guess that more than 70% will have the same (or a related) title. I just *know*. Normally I just mark it all as read without delving into it because I care about my blood pressure. This time, though, the subject under discussion was warnings, one of the fanfic things that I've put a fair amount of thought into.
I'm one of those unpopular people who would like to have warnings available on fic. If there is no warning on a fic then I assume I'm not going to find a graphic rape scene in the middle of it, none of my favourite characters are going to die and nobody will be tied up, whipped, cut and buggered in a frenzy of orgasmic (to the writer) pleasure. These situations are things that I would like to be warned for because I really, really, really don't want to read them.
This doesn't mean that I want a great, honking, flashing sign on the screen saying "Danger! Possible graphic sex and bad language ahead!" If the rating is NC-17 then I assume that the sex will be graphic, the language may not make Mary Whitehouse happy and there's a chance that there may be violence in the story. I am honestly not that stupid or naive. I use the rating as a gauge on what level the fic is likely to be at.
But there are certain things (like death fic, rape fic, heavy BDSM, graphic, lovingly described torture) that I would like to have warnings available for. Very early in my fanfic career I read an unmarked, unwarned rape fic that nearly put me off fanfic for life. It was a very nervous, hesitant Sel that returned to the archives a few weeks later and got sucked back into fandom.
This doesn't mean that you need to put the warnings right up there at the top of the fic. Make them available and give me the choice of checking them out or forging on without caring. On my review archive, I make warnings available and it's up to the user as to whether they click the link to check the warnings or just go straight to the fic. No author has ever complained - in fact, I've had a number of authors and readers compliment me on the diplomatic solution to a perennial fandom problem. Put the warnings into a little pop-up that I can choose to open, hide them by giving them the same colour text as the background so that I have to highlight them to read them - I don't care how you do it. Just make them available and let me choose whether I want to be spoiled or not. I will not be a happy bunny if I read a fic that had no warnings and find one of my major squicks lurking in the middle of the fic. I won't flame you, but I won't read anything you write again and, if the fic was on an archive, I'll probably avoid the archive completely. I will have nightmares afterwards, be grouchy for a few days and probably hide myself in a favourite old book (not fic) until I feel better. And my insistence on warnings will just increase.
I do think that some warnings are ridiculous. Honestly, I think I can guess that there will be graphic het sex scenes in an NC-17 fic that is marked het or has a het pairing in the summary information. I don't expect Jack to talk like a BBC newsreader in an NC-17 fic. Partner betrayal doesn't feel like something that really needs a warning. I've never seen the point in an 'intense situations' warning because that really doesn't mean anything. One person's drama is another person's angsty tortured soul. I would appreciate a warning for excessively graphic violence, but it won't kill me if you don't provide it. Warnings for rape, death, underage content, heavy BDSM and related areas are, IMO, necessary.
As wanky as the AG is, I think that this is one area that they've handled well. I like the idea of a part zero post with each fic containing the summary, rating etc. It gives people the option of checking this stuff out (because some people object to having more than just a fic title and author) or jumping straight in. The part zero also allows authors to put warnings in under spoiler space - it's up the reader whether they're spoiled or not. You can read as much or as little of the information as you want to because you don't need to page through it to get to the fic - the fic is in a separate post. To my mind, it's a good compromise.
The debate on the AG is currently waging around whether people should be allowed to put 'Warnings withheld' instead of listing the warnings. As long as people aren't using that instead of stating 'no warnings' then I have no problem with that. As Rauhnee has stated, only a small percentage of authors will probably take advantage of that option and you can always email an author to ask what the warnings are if you're that concerned about missing out on a good fic. It keeps the element of surprise that an author may want and I'll probably just skip the fic or ask someone else about it.
As has been pointed out by others over the years, the information given with a fic takes the place of a book cover. I'm one of the people who usually looks at the cover illustration and reads the blurb when deciding whether to read a book. I don't usually read the first or last page - the cover gives me enough information to know whether the book may interest me. I rely on fic information to give me the same details, which is one of the reasons why summaries consisting of a random line of dialogue or even just one word irritate me. There are things that I can read in a book (death, occasionally rape) that I simply can't read in fanfic. I don't know why, but there it is. Usually, though, the book cover tells me whether I'm dealing with an angsty, unhappy book or a fluffy happy book and I'm able to be prepared for whatever comes. I'm also not reading about characters that I watch on a TV screen and write about myself. There's a different kind of emotional intimacy between reading something that an author is doing to her characters and reading something that a fanfic author is doing to those guys on the screen that I watch every week. Maybe I'm crazy, but that's the way my reading works.
What it comes down to is handling warnings in a way that helps as many people as possible. If you're an author who really objects to having any kind of spoiler on your fic, even an optional one, then don't yell when someone a little less forgiving than me flames you because they read an unmarked rape fic and it triggered a flashback. Even the 'warnings withheld' option hidden in a clickable popup gives readers the option of looking and skipping merrily past your fic or emailing to say "I don't read rape fics - is your fic safe? Don't tell me what the surprise is."
And that turned into a much longer post than I intended it to be.
I'm one of those unpopular people who would like to have warnings available on fic. If there is no warning on a fic then I assume I'm not going to find a graphic rape scene in the middle of it, none of my favourite characters are going to die and nobody will be tied up, whipped, cut and buggered in a frenzy of orgasmic (to the writer) pleasure. These situations are things that I would like to be warned for because I really, really, really don't want to read them.
This doesn't mean that I want a great, honking, flashing sign on the screen saying "Danger! Possible graphic sex and bad language ahead!" If the rating is NC-17 then I assume that the sex will be graphic, the language may not make Mary Whitehouse happy and there's a chance that there may be violence in the story. I am honestly not that stupid or naive. I use the rating as a gauge on what level the fic is likely to be at.
But there are certain things (like death fic, rape fic, heavy BDSM, graphic, lovingly described torture) that I would like to have warnings available for. Very early in my fanfic career I read an unmarked, unwarned rape fic that nearly put me off fanfic for life. It was a very nervous, hesitant Sel that returned to the archives a few weeks later and got sucked back into fandom.
This doesn't mean that you need to put the warnings right up there at the top of the fic. Make them available and give me the choice of checking them out or forging on without caring. On my review archive, I make warnings available and it's up to the user as to whether they click the link to check the warnings or just go straight to the fic. No author has ever complained - in fact, I've had a number of authors and readers compliment me on the diplomatic solution to a perennial fandom problem. Put the warnings into a little pop-up that I can choose to open, hide them by giving them the same colour text as the background so that I have to highlight them to read them - I don't care how you do it. Just make them available and let me choose whether I want to be spoiled or not. I will not be a happy bunny if I read a fic that had no warnings and find one of my major squicks lurking in the middle of the fic. I won't flame you, but I won't read anything you write again and, if the fic was on an archive, I'll probably avoid the archive completely. I will have nightmares afterwards, be grouchy for a few days and probably hide myself in a favourite old book (not fic) until I feel better. And my insistence on warnings will just increase.
I do think that some warnings are ridiculous. Honestly, I think I can guess that there will be graphic het sex scenes in an NC-17 fic that is marked het or has a het pairing in the summary information. I don't expect Jack to talk like a BBC newsreader in an NC-17 fic. Partner betrayal doesn't feel like something that really needs a warning. I've never seen the point in an 'intense situations' warning because that really doesn't mean anything. One person's drama is another person's angsty tortured soul. I would appreciate a warning for excessively graphic violence, but it won't kill me if you don't provide it. Warnings for rape, death, underage content, heavy BDSM and related areas are, IMO, necessary.
As wanky as the AG is, I think that this is one area that they've handled well. I like the idea of a part zero post with each fic containing the summary, rating etc. It gives people the option of checking this stuff out (because some people object to having more than just a fic title and author) or jumping straight in. The part zero also allows authors to put warnings in under spoiler space - it's up the reader whether they're spoiled or not. You can read as much or as little of the information as you want to because you don't need to page through it to get to the fic - the fic is in a separate post. To my mind, it's a good compromise.
The debate on the AG is currently waging around whether people should be allowed to put 'Warnings withheld' instead of listing the warnings. As long as people aren't using that instead of stating 'no warnings' then I have no problem with that. As Rauhnee has stated, only a small percentage of authors will probably take advantage of that option and you can always email an author to ask what the warnings are if you're that concerned about missing out on a good fic. It keeps the element of surprise that an author may want and I'll probably just skip the fic or ask someone else about it.
As has been pointed out by others over the years, the information given with a fic takes the place of a book cover. I'm one of the people who usually looks at the cover illustration and reads the blurb when deciding whether to read a book. I don't usually read the first or last page - the cover gives me enough information to know whether the book may interest me. I rely on fic information to give me the same details, which is one of the reasons why summaries consisting of a random line of dialogue or even just one word irritate me. There are things that I can read in a book (death, occasionally rape) that I simply can't read in fanfic. I don't know why, but there it is. Usually, though, the book cover tells me whether I'm dealing with an angsty, unhappy book or a fluffy happy book and I'm able to be prepared for whatever comes. I'm also not reading about characters that I watch on a TV screen and write about myself. There's a different kind of emotional intimacy between reading something that an author is doing to her characters and reading something that a fanfic author is doing to those guys on the screen that I watch every week. Maybe I'm crazy, but that's the way my reading works.
What it comes down to is handling warnings in a way that helps as many people as possible. If you're an author who really objects to having any kind of spoiler on your fic, even an optional one, then don't yell when someone a little less forgiving than me flames you because they read an unmarked rape fic and it triggered a flashback. Even the 'warnings withheld' option hidden in a clickable popup gives readers the option of looking and skipping merrily past your fic or emailing to say "I don't read rape fics - is your fic safe? Don't tell me what the surprise is."
And that turned into a much longer post than I intended it to be.
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no subject
Date: 2004-09-29 11:37 pm (UTC)Warnings are a safety net, I understand that. But some of the rhetoric on tuna gate has been insulting in the extreme to authors. And I think one of the list owners unnecssary insults and damning words about precious, pretentious, disrespectful... authors was the absolute limit.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-30 08:32 am (UTC)If only we could find ways to warn about that kind of thing...
Warnings are a safety net, I understand that.
::nods::
And I think one of the list owners unnecssary insults and damning words about precious, pretentious, disrespectful... authors was the absolute limit.
I sat there reading some of those posts and found some of the vitriol from that particular list owner (and a couple of well-known writers) somewhat stunning. I know that this is an issue that people feel strongly about but...yurp. That was more than uncalled for - it was downright insulting and to see it come from the list owner... ::shakes head::
no subject
Date: 2004-09-30 01:14 pm (UTC)They know their audience. It devolved into one big dysfunctional love fest.
Author: I would never be so heartless as to post a story without warnings. Because I would never disregard the feelings of my precious readers in such a callous manner. More importantly, I'm such a brilliant writer and have developed my technical and creative abilities to such an extent that I don't need to resort to shocking my readers. Of course, I'm not so confident that I don't have doubts, not like those other arrogant writers.
Reader: Oh, don't have doubts, you write so marvelously. Why you've left us a legacy. I said so right there in the subject line of my post. I can prove it to you. Why this passage alone moved me to tears:
"Daniel," Jack said, gazing adoringly into his lover's sky blue eyes, "you've changed my life. I was ready to give it all up and then there you were, so brilliant and brave and beautiful. Unlike Carter who only thinks she's a genius and whose eyes aren't nearly as blue as yours."
"Jack, oh Jack, I never thought anyone would love me the way you do. I was always so lonely and lost. I was a geek and the kids on the playground beat me up and took my lunch money. But you've made it all better. I have a home now and I have you."
Author: You liked that, really? Wow, thank you. I'm so undeserving of your praise. But I try. In fact I approach each story as an exercise and I have specific goals for everything I write. I don't seem to have a muse though. I did once, but he seems to have run away. Maybe he died. He was spending an awful lot of time throwing up.
Yes, I am a bad, bad girl.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-30 03:19 pm (UTC)