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selenay*sigh* So now we have Boldthrough to compliment Strikethrough of a couple of months ago.
For those who haven't seen it yet, there are a couple of posts out there with lots of links and explanations:
http://elke-tanzer.livejournal.com/791662.html
http://community.livejournal.com/metafandom/130312.html
I'm not quite sure how I feel about it. Most of me is clinging to the community on LJ and crying "But I don't want to leave". So I don't think that I'll be leaving any time soon. However, if there is a big enough exodus of people from my f-list then I'll be looking into it, at the least.
The problem is where to go? Greatest Journal and Insane Journal simply don't have the resources for all of us and are likely to crash if we migrate en mass. Journalfen is no better. They're also likely to have the same problems with being targeted if fandom shifts over there completely.
A few people are also making the point that we've got a perception problem here. A lot of things that go on in fandom look, to outsiders, at the very least weird and at the most extreme really dodgy. There are some areas that fandom goes into (chan and RPF) that make me uncomfortable, and I've been wandering around fandom for donkeys years now. So how unlikely is it that outsiders won't feel the same?
LJ/6A are the ones paying for the servers and they have to answer to their advertisers. Their methods haven't been great - more communication and warning might have averted some of the anger - but I understand why they've taken the steps that they have. They've gone overboard - deleting the content with an explanation rather than deleting the journals of the content creators would have been the rational approach. However, they've done it and they aren't going to be undoing it.
As long as they stick to just cracking down on chan, nothing I do on this journal is going to be a problem. Despite all the "sky falling in" wailing, I don't think they're going to expand to target all slash or all sex because there are far too many organisations out there who would cry foul. Chan, however, doesn't have that kind of protection because of the legal implications and its position in the moral grey areas.
My fiction is hosted elsewhere and, thankfully, I'm not a BNF who might get targeted when the stupid "Report abuse" button starts appearing on all my LJ pages. I've always had a policy of not reviewing chan on RPF on Haven Reviews and I have no intention of suddenly becoming more liberal in reaction to the current insanity.
If everyone migrated to another platform - just one platform, not half a dozen - then I'd probably move with you because I like the community here.
One thing that I've been thinking about is that this isn't the first time fandom has migrated. When I started, most fandom stuff was done through message boards. Soon after I joined in, fandom activities moved onto OneList/eGroups/YahooGroups. Three or four years ago, everyone began the move to LJ. Some people have stayed in those former haunts, most people at least have a toe in LJ now and some fandoms are almost entirely LJ-based. Thing is, even in those old haunts there were these problems. The Master Apprentice list on YahooGroups just vanished one day. Message boards received C&Ds. Maybe what we're facing now is one of fandom's periodic migrations and we'll be moving onto something better?
We just have to find that better thing before everyone moves, if they're going to, because at the moment there isn't a viable alternative (except MySpace and that's just a big NO).
This is all a bit incoherent and I suspect that it's because I don't really know how I feel yet. The content that people got banned for isn't something that I would go hunting for and I can see the argument that it could break laws. I can also see the argument that it's artistic expression.
Maybe in a few days, when things have calmed down slightly and people are dusting themselves off, I'll feel clearer. At the moment, I think everyone is too close to it to make firm decisions about what they're doing and where they're going. There is no consensus (apart from a vague WTF at LJ) about the future because there isn't anywhere else to go. Yet. So I'll wait, see what happens and then think about it all some more.
In other thoughts, it's too damn hot and I miss my wet, rainy summer :-( Also, college work was rather boring today and included a section on Netiquette, in French. Bleh. It asked me why capslock is bad in on-line conversation, yet I could not use the phrase Capslock Of Rage because I don't know the French for it.
Also, I just want to hide and read fic for a while so that I can ignore the bit where I have to go to work tomorrow. Although I do only have a three day week so it's not all bad :-)
For those who haven't seen it yet, there are a couple of posts out there with lots of links and explanations:
http://elke-tanzer.livejournal.com/791662.html
http://community.livejournal.com/metafandom/130312.html
I'm not quite sure how I feel about it. Most of me is clinging to the community on LJ and crying "But I don't want to leave". So I don't think that I'll be leaving any time soon. However, if there is a big enough exodus of people from my f-list then I'll be looking into it, at the least.
The problem is where to go? Greatest Journal and Insane Journal simply don't have the resources for all of us and are likely to crash if we migrate en mass. Journalfen is no better. They're also likely to have the same problems with being targeted if fandom shifts over there completely.
A few people are also making the point that we've got a perception problem here. A lot of things that go on in fandom look, to outsiders, at the very least weird and at the most extreme really dodgy. There are some areas that fandom goes into (chan and RPF) that make me uncomfortable, and I've been wandering around fandom for donkeys years now. So how unlikely is it that outsiders won't feel the same?
LJ/6A are the ones paying for the servers and they have to answer to their advertisers. Their methods haven't been great - more communication and warning might have averted some of the anger - but I understand why they've taken the steps that they have. They've gone overboard - deleting the content with an explanation rather than deleting the journals of the content creators would have been the rational approach. However, they've done it and they aren't going to be undoing it.
As long as they stick to just cracking down on chan, nothing I do on this journal is going to be a problem. Despite all the "sky falling in" wailing, I don't think they're going to expand to target all slash or all sex because there are far too many organisations out there who would cry foul. Chan, however, doesn't have that kind of protection because of the legal implications and its position in the moral grey areas.
My fiction is hosted elsewhere and, thankfully, I'm not a BNF who might get targeted when the stupid "Report abuse" button starts appearing on all my LJ pages. I've always had a policy of not reviewing chan on RPF on Haven Reviews and I have no intention of suddenly becoming more liberal in reaction to the current insanity.
If everyone migrated to another platform - just one platform, not half a dozen - then I'd probably move with you because I like the community here.
One thing that I've been thinking about is that this isn't the first time fandom has migrated. When I started, most fandom stuff was done through message boards. Soon after I joined in, fandom activities moved onto OneList/eGroups/YahooGroups. Three or four years ago, everyone began the move to LJ. Some people have stayed in those former haunts, most people at least have a toe in LJ now and some fandoms are almost entirely LJ-based. Thing is, even in those old haunts there were these problems. The Master Apprentice list on YahooGroups just vanished one day. Message boards received C&Ds. Maybe what we're facing now is one of fandom's periodic migrations and we'll be moving onto something better?
We just have to find that better thing before everyone moves, if they're going to, because at the moment there isn't a viable alternative (except MySpace and that's just a big NO).
This is all a bit incoherent and I suspect that it's because I don't really know how I feel yet. The content that people got banned for isn't something that I would go hunting for and I can see the argument that it could break laws. I can also see the argument that it's artistic expression.
Maybe in a few days, when things have calmed down slightly and people are dusting themselves off, I'll feel clearer. At the moment, I think everyone is too close to it to make firm decisions about what they're doing and where they're going. There is no consensus (apart from a vague WTF at LJ) about the future because there isn't anywhere else to go. Yet. So I'll wait, see what happens and then think about it all some more.
In other thoughts, it's too damn hot and I miss my wet, rainy summer :-( Also, college work was rather boring today and included a section on Netiquette, in French. Bleh. It asked me why capslock is bad in on-line conversation, yet I could not use the phrase Capslock Of Rage because I don't know the French for it.
Also, I just want to hide and read fic for a while so that I can ignore the bit where I have to go to work tomorrow. Although I do only have a three day week so it's not all bad :-)
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no subject
Date: 2007-08-05 04:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-07 10:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-05 04:51 pm (UTC)All of my blog posts are at my blog, and are far easier to find, all of my fic is on my website. So if LJ suddenly died forever overnight, it would pretty much have no effect on me.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-07 10:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-07 01:11 pm (UTC)It's all that porn you have on there... :)
no subject
Date: 2007-08-07 06:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-05 04:54 pm (UTC)::sigh:: I think mainly, I feel sorry that a space I thought (naively, as it turns out) was safe -- isn't. I feel betayed somehow, which yes, is totally illogical, but doesn't alter the fact.
ION, if you want a wet, rainy summer - I'll gladly send you some of ours in exchange for some heat.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-07 10:33 am (UTC)I think that's what is making it harder for LJ to justify keeping the content and, sadly, easier for fan activities to be targetted. It's too easy to forget that even the tamer stuff we do looks bloody odd to people outside fandom.
I do worry mightily therefore about the whole 'report abuse' issue
So do I for the same reasons *sigh* It's just asking for trouble. I can easily see, for example, silly trolls thinking that it's "fun" to hit that button for no good reason. Or some of the more rabid corners of the fandom going on a vendetta against pairings or genres that they dislike. Or even Orry's crew reporting any posts critising Orry. There are so many ways that it could be mis-used and I don't have any faith that the abuse team will check before deleting/banning content.
I feel betayed somehow, which yes, is totally illogical, but doesn't alter the fact.
I think you've just hit on why this is causing such a strong reaction. It's illogical, but understandable.
I'll gladly send you some of ours in exchange for some heat.
Yes please!